Author Mike Drayton, a clinical psychologist and leadership coach at the University of Oxford’s Saïd Business School, explores attributes professionals can build on to be more persuasive at work, key distinctions between persuasion and manipulation, and examples of coercion in the workplace.
He also explains why expanding influence in the workplace is less about “clever words or phrases” and more about exhibiting expertise and reliability.
On 8 May, Drayton is scheduled to speak on influencing and persuasion skills at AICPA & CIMA’s 2025 CPD 360 Annual Conference at the Jodrell Bank Centre for Engagement in the UK.
Last July on the FM podcast, he shared tips for managing burnout, including how to adopt firm boundaries to prioritise wellbeing.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
- Some differences between influence and persuasion.
- Attributes and behaviours that can make us more persuasive.
- Distinctions between persuasion and manipulation.
- How to spot and respond to coercive tactics in the workplace.
- Two fundamental traits that make us more respected at work.
- Questions to help professionals identify their strengths and weaknesses.
— To comment on this episode or to suggest an idea for another episode, contact Steph Brown at
Stephanie.Brown@aicpa-cima.com.
Transcript
Steph Brown: Welcome to the FM podcast. I’m Steph Brown. We’re back with Mike Drayton, author, clinical psychologist, and executive coach at the University of Oxford’s Saïd Business School. Mike was on the podcast back in July to discuss burnout and what we can do to switch off after work to maintain a better sense of work/life balance.
Today, we’re discussing the psychology of influence and persuasion. A topic Mike spoke about at UK & Ireland ENGAGE in October. We’ll be looking at the relationship between those concepts, some ways positive and negative acts of persuasion can manifest at work, and how employees can break away from negative influences in the workplace.
Welcome back to the podcast, Mike. Thanks for joining me today.
Mike Drayton: Thanks, Steph. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Brown: What is the relationship between persuasion and influence, and can one exist without the other?
Drayton: That’s a good question. Well, I think persuasion and influence are very closely related concepts, but they’re not quite the same. I see persuasion, it’s more of a focused and active process. It’s about using arguments, evidence, and, usually, emotion to convince someone to change their mind or change their behaviour. It happens in a moment. It’s like a salesperson trying to sell you something or a lawyer in court trying to make a case.
But influence is a much longer term, broader thing. People can have influence over other people without them realising it. If someone you admire or respect acts a certain way, they’ll be influencing you, but they’re not particularly trying to influence you. Influence, I’d say, is built on trust, credibility, and the strength of the relationship. This is how a respected leader influences the team just how they behave. They’re not trying to particularly influence them. They’re just behaving in a very effective and ethical manner and people look up to that and often shape their behaviour. They think, “I’d like to be like that person.”
I think that’s the main difference between the two concepts, as I understand it.
Can persuasion exist without influence? Yeah, I think so. I think someone can be persuasive in a single conversation but not have any particularly lasting influence on how you are as a person. It’s like a politician making a speech but not really changing public opinion. Can influence exist without persuasion? Certainly. Someone can have an influence on you without needing to persuade you directly. If you admire someone, you might start acting like them or dressing like them.
I think most of the time persuasion and influence come together. The most persuasive people, in my view, have got long-term influence on us, both as individuals and on society and groups of people, and on organisations. The most influential people don’t really need to work too hard to persuade others because they’ve got that bedrock of trust, and people already trust their judgement and like them.
Brown: Thank you, Mike. That’s really interesting. Going on from what you said about influence where people are quite, maybe attracted to certain qualities in someone. Do we have to be liked in a sense to be persuasive?
Drayton: Well, I guess it helps. I think it’s easier to be persuasive if other people like you, but it’s not essential. This is one of the main points that Robert Cialdini, who’s the main influence and persuasion guru, this is one of the main points he makes, that liking is one of the key principles of influence. People are much more likely to be persuaded by someone that they like and can relate to. That’s why good salespeople and leaders do work on being likable and building rapport. But the main point is that being respected is far more important in persuading people than being liked.
People will listen to someone they trust, even if they don’t particularly like them. A doctor delivering bad news doesn’t need to be liked, but they need to be credible and trusted. I guess a lot of it comes down to context. If you’re trying to persuade a friend, being liked is important. But if you’re giving expert advice as an accountant, well, credibility and authority matters an awful lot more, and the best persuaders combine both factors, really. Cialdini talks about how it’s important to be warm, to come across as warm, friendly, approachable, as well as competent, so they connect with people emotionally, but on a rational level as well.
But if you had to choose between the two, it’s much more important to be respected and be a credible source than to be liked if you want to persuade someone.
Brown: Thinking about how persuasion can play out at work, what’s the distinction between positive examples of persuasion from leaders, and where things go into more negative and more unethical territories, and how could that play out in the workplace?
Drayton: I guess we could call positive persuasion, persuasion and negative persuasion, we could use a different word for that and call that manipulation. I think there’s a clear boundary between the two. I think the key factor that distinguishes the two is: Why are you trying to persuade someone; what’s your intent? Ethical persuasion is done for good reason. It’s done for a reason that helps the person trying to do the persuading, but will also help the person being persuaded. Ethical persuasion, all that is really, it’s presenting facts, arguments, and it appeals to values and ethics, but it leaves the decision up to the other person. Unethical persuasion is all about coercion, deception, or exploiting weakness.
In the workplace, ethical persuasion might be a manager making a case for change by showing evidence about how things will be better after the change, and inviting a discussion. Or it might be one of your colleagues trying to persuade the team to adopt a new strategy because it’s more efficient and effective, and they would do that by explaining the benefits. Whereas unethical persuasion is more about a leader lying or withholding important information to try and push their own agenda, Or a colleague using guilt, fear, or shame or pressure, or something like that to get somebody to agree with them. Or a boss making promises that they’ve got absolutely no intention of keeping: They’re doing that to gain compliance. Think of the average, maybe not the average, but think of a politician, all those factors happen a lot in politics, don’t they?
When persuasion turns into manipulation, that’s a really bad thing because it damages trust. In the short term, people might comply. But in the long term, it causes all kinds of problems such as resentment and it damages people’s reputations.
Brown: From a psychological perspective, is there anything that anyone at work can start to introduce into their thought process to infer where things might be unethical or might be misleading to avoid falling into those traps and harming their own reputation?
Drayton: The biggest clue are your feelings. If you start to feel uncomfortable about something; if you start to feel that you’re being coerced or pushed into something, or if something doesn’t feel right, that should be your first warning sign. That should set alarm bells ringing in your head. If you start to get those feelings of discomfort, you need to think about the tactics, try and recognise the tactics that are being used.
Because manipulative people do things like putting you under a lot of pressure: “If you don’t do this, you’re letting the whole team down.” That’s a common phrase you hear. Or lying or withholding information. They’re pushing you into making a decision but they’re not giving you a good reason about why you have to make this urgent, quick decision; why you have to decide now. You see that a lot in salesmen. Flattery or threats such as using emotions rather than reason: “Somebody who’s as bright and thoughtful, and, if I might say, as attractive as you is bound to agree with me, wouldn’t you say?” Or, “If you don’t agree with me, you’ll find out there’ll be big trouble.” If you start hearing phrases like that, well, that’s going to alert you that people are being manipulative.
What do you do then, if you start feeling like that? Well, the main thing to do is to take a breath and make some space to think. Don’t be pushed into making an immediate decision. A really good thing I’ve found, or a good tip, is to say, “Okay, thanks for that. I’ll give that some thought and I’ll get back to you”, or, “I need a bit of time to consider this before deciding.” Most people, even if they’re being a bit pushy but not manipulative, they’ll accept that. They’ll say, “Fine, we’ll talk tomorrow”, or whenever it is. But the manipulative person will come back and say, “No, you have to decide now.” And that’s an even stronger argument to say, “No, I really can’t decide now. I need to think about it, I’ll get back to you tomorrow.” Then walk away or hang up.
When you have walked away, talk to somebody else, talk to somebody who you trust. Talk to somebody who’s not been subject to the emotional pressure that you’ve been subject to. Talk to somebody who’s independent and get a second opinion.
If you’re stuck in an argument with someone, a really good strategy is to be specific about the facts. If someone’s being vague, say, “Specifically, what do you mean?” “What might happen if this doesn’t happen, can you give me some clear reasons as to why you want me to do this?”
Brown: If a client approached you and said they wanted to expand their influence at work, maybe they’re looking for a promotion, new opportunity. What kind of questions or principles would you encourage them to explore before embarking on that journey?
Drayton: I don’t know if there’s much you can say because I think expanding influence is not so much about what you say, it’s more about what you do at work. It’s about being valued. I don’t think there are any clever words or phrases that people can use to persuade a boss or senior person to give more responsibility or something. It’s about your behaviour rather than what you say.
I think the questions should be questions that the person asks themselves rather than other people. For example, they might want to ask themselves, what do you want to be known for? Because I would say influence comes from two factors, an interaction of two factors, which are expertise; being good at your job, and reliability; turning up on time and not letting people down. If people see you as reliable and somebody who knows what they’re talking about, then influence will naturally follow.
Another question you could ask is, who do you need to influence? The obvious answer to that is your boss but that’s not always the case. It’s not just about influencing senior people. Often it’s about your peers, the people you manage, if you manage people, and influencing networks as well. Senior people who might be responsible for your future will see that, and they’ll see that you get along with people and you’re the sort of person who can work with a team and get things done. Think about who you need to influence and ask yourself, what is it specifically that you do or are particularly good at that adds value? Because, as I said before, people with influence don’t just talk, they solve problems. They get things done. They make decisions. They make it easier for other people to make decisions, and they’re very supportive of other people.
I’d say build credibility before persuasion. That’s important.
Forget about what you say: Focus more on listening and understanding what’s needed. Because I think people are more likely to listen to you if they see you as somebody who’s good at listening to them. Make other people look good, especially the boss. Finally, a really good tip is to, this is from Cialdini’s book on influence and persuasion, get really good at telling stories. Rather than just presenting a series of facts and data when you’re trying to persuade someone, try and weave it into a story. Because stories persuade people. Stories make your ideas more memorable.
But I guess, ultimately, it’s not about what you say. It’s about playing the long game. It’s not about quick wins. It’s about being competent and reliable, I’d say.
Brown: For people that might be slower to realise where their skills lie or what they are actually good at, how can they get a better sense of their innate qualities that will help them in the workplace, if they’re not already aware of them?
Drayton: I’d say ask people. Ask your boss, ask your peers, say, “I really enjoy working here. What do you think I do best?” You might say to them, this is a really good question, “What could I do to be a better accountant?” If you’re a boss, this is a really risky one. If you’re a boss and you have direct reports, say to your team, “What can I do to be a better manager?” And they’ll tell you, often.
When somebody tells you something, don’t argue with them. Don’t say, “No, I’ve tried that, that won’t work,” or something like that. Smile at them and say, “Thank you.” Try and see it as a gift.
If you want to be really ambitious, talk to your partner and your children, and your family and your friends, “What can I do to be a better partner?” Your partner will then say, “How long have you got?” Or say to your kids, “What could I do to be a better parent?” That kind of thing.
I mean it’s very difficult, especially in British culture to say, “What am I good at?” Because it feels a bit awkward. So it’s often better to say, “What could I get better at?” Then people might say, “Well, you’re really good at this and really good at that, but work more on this aspect of the job.”
Brown: Thanks, Mike. That’s a really great note to end on.
Drayton: I should say to you, Steph, “What can I do to be a better interviewee?” You can tell me later.
Brown: I’ll email you that. No, I’m just kidding. You’ve been fantastic. Thanks again.
Drayton: My pleasure.
