John Graham, FCMA, CGMA, CIMA president and Association of International Certified Professional Accountants co-chair, joined the FM podcast to discuss the pace of change and how finance professionals can lead their organisations through unpredictable conditions.
Graham explains the skills needed to move into a finance business partner role, how to effectively challenge outdated practices, the role of critical thinking skills in gaining trust, and why curiosity is essential for continuous learning and skills development.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
- One vital ability for finance professionals in this fast-paced era.
- Key attributes for transitioning into a finance business partner role.
- The impact of critical thinking on career development and reputation.
- Risk management advice and the importance of leading with purpose.
- How the Association plans to prepare members for future trends.
- The convergence of curiosity and success.
Play the episode below or read the edited transcript:
— To comment on this episode or to suggest an idea for another episode, contact Steph Brown at Stephanie.Brown@aicpa-cima.com.
Transcript
Steph Brown: Welcome back, listeners. Thanks for tuning in to the FM podcast. I’m Steph Brown. This episode is focused on the future of the profession. Taking us on this journey is new CIMA President and Association Co-Chair John Graham. We’ll be exploring the role of CGMAs, why they are intrinsic to the future of finance, where the CGMA designation can take your career, and how finance professionals can best position themselves as value drivers for their organisations.
Welcome, John. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
John Graham: My pleasure.
Brown: Coming up, we’ll discuss what the future holds for the profession. But first, I’d like to look back just a bit. You’ve been CIMA president and Association co-chair since June, and we’re recording in the first day of August. In talking to fellow finance professionals, what have you learned, both about them, and about where the profession is heading?
Graham: In one way, it’s a little bit scary that it’s coming up to two months since the CIMA annual general meeting. I think one of the things that’s been really exciting for me is the ability and opportunity to talk to members. I think there’s a mixture when you talk to members. They recognise the fact that we are in a really dynamic environment. The pace of change has significantly increased over the last couple of decades or even the last couple of years when we look at tech, AI, geopolitics, regulatory change, climate change, cyberthreats, etc.
We’ve seen this trend intensify recently. I think it’s fair to say it has been a bit of a bumpy ride. If you look forward, could we say it’s going to get any better? I don’t think we can. I think the reality is we are in that fast-paced environment, and we need to adapt and we need to respond to that. That’s both us as individuals and also the organisations we’re working for or with. We’ve got to find different ways of doing things. We’ve got to find different ways of growing. We’ve got to challenge ourselves to be more productive and more efficient.
I work in the NHS, and the absolute mantra at the moment is transformation, productivity, improvement, etc. Fundamentally, as organisations, we’ve got to look at our business models, we’ve got to challenge ourselves, we’ve got to redefine them and make sure they’re fit for purpose. Not just for now but also going forward and try and future-proof them.
The challenge for us as finance professionals and finance teams is to focus on that driving value, value creation, being able to support those strategic decisions that we need to make — both as individuals, but also as organisations. I think in that context, our ability to adapt is vital. We need to be innovative. We need to lead the organisation. We need to challenge the organisation.
We’ve got to step into that broader, more strategic impact role within our organisations. We can’t just comment on and provide a narrative to what has happened and provide a financial report that’s looking back over the last month, or x months, or whatever period it is. We’ve got to be able to say to our organisations, these are the challenges, these are the opportunities, and more importantly, this is what we can do about it. Provide those solutions. Our ability to say, “This is an opportunity, let’s grasp it,” and we have to grasp that opportunity and go forward.
Brown: What key attributes and skills are essential for finance professionals and, specifically, the traits that can position them better as business partners?
Graham: Fundamentally, we need to understand our business. We need to understand where we sit in our particular markets. We need to be able to identify those opportunities going forward. It’s no longer just about the number-crunching or the gatekeepers. That is important. We’ve got to still do that. We’ve got to have credibility about the data we present, and it’s got to be accurate, timely, and relevant. But more importantly, as strategic business partners equipped with new skills and the use of AI and technologies, we must have that deeper insight into our business and our organisations. If we do that, we will be able to meet the requirements of the business and the organisations.
We should have an absolute passion and hunger in acquiring new skills and competencies. Whether that’s technology-driven, whether that’s from a presentation point of view, whether that’s from a communication skills point of view. But we’ve got to have that burning desire to get better at what we do. CIMA CGMAs: You should have that absolute commitment to ongoing personal and professional development — that is even more key.
We’ve got to embrace technology, whatever that looks like now; whatever that looks like in a month’s time; a year’s time; five years’ time. We have got to be at the forefront of using it, learning it. It’s about being able to think more strategically and provide those solutions. Identify some of the trends, embrace them, and say to our organisations, “This is what we can do about it,” and back that up with robust data and presentation.
One of the most important areas is the development of problem-solving and critical thinking. As I’ve said, it’s not just about saying this is the challenge, this is the issue, here’s what the numbers have told us in the past. Those skills to be able to say this is the problem, here’s potential solutions to it, and make a recommendation. To be able to think critically, evaluate what’s going on, innovate, transform, are really key to us. They impact every area of business and what we do.
They enable us as individuals and finance teams in the organisations to make informed decisions. By doing that, we should drive business performance and navigate challenges with confidence. It’s routine, isn’t it, for us to analyse complex data? Use that data. Provide information. Make better decisions and assess risk. And in doing that, manage and mitigate some of those risks.
It’s about collaborating with colleagues — both internally and externally — and communicating that and be confident in the communication of that. Some of that risk-taking might mean that we have to adapt some of the things that we do. But fundamentally, it goes back to us being that trusted adviser. Our organisations are looking for that leadership. We can provide that leadership.
Brown: You mentioned the importance of critical thinking skills. How do you think your critical thinking skills have developed over the years?
Graham: It’s interesting, isn’t it? Because we all work in different sectors and have different roles. Some of your ability to provide that critical thinking is influenced about what stage you’re in your career. But one of the things I would say to colleagues is don’t ever be worried or frightened about offering those solutions and offering your views on things.
I work in the NHS. We’ve got a real wicked issue at the moment in that the levels of activity we are trying to do are increasing. The levels of acuity, i.e., how sick people are who present to us, whether that’s from an emergency point of view or elective point of view, are increasing. The population is getting older, which is brilliant, but it also means people present with more illness later in their life. And money is confined. Money is really tight. So, we cannot carry on doing the same things we’ve always done.
How do we do more activity, become more productive within a very constrained financial envelope? From my personal experience, it’s about embracing that challenge and that opportunity. It’s about seeking out colleagues who are interested in transforming and innovating. It’s about going out and understanding the business, having conversations with people. Get them to explain to you what they do on a day-to-day basis. Because without that fundamental understanding of how your organisations operate, our ability to present credible solutions to make us more productive is really challenging.
We have to adapt. Technology has changed. Our ability to use that technology, our ability to embrace that technology, has been one of the biggest lessons for me. CPD is vital to us; it’s a professional requirement. But, notwithstanding that, we need to stay relevant. Not just today, but for tomorrow. We need to be thinking ahead. It’s the ability to challenge. It’s the ability to think almost the unthinkable and provide those challenges and opportunities and say, “Why can’t we do this?”
Some of that, again, for me and other NHS colleagues, does mean challenging other professionals, but you do that in a constructive way. That comes back to some of the things I said previously about communication skills and gaining trust and gaining respect. When we do that, even more so we enhance our reputation as that valued business partner and our ability to contribute and support the organisation going through.
We’ll all have a different view about what critical thinking means. And the reality is we will develop and acquire new skills over the years. Fundamentally, for me, it is that ability to assess where your organisation is, assess the risks and the opportunities, and then provide credible solutions and get support for those solutions across your organisation and provide strong leadership.
Brown: What’s your advice for finance professionals assessing when to take bold risks and when to apply the brakes in this era of uncertainty?
Graham: It’s a great challenge that, isn’t it? It’s probably something that we face all the time. The reality is, at the moment we’re in that dynamic, uncertain environment, aren’t we? Economic uncertainty is a defining feature of where we are at the moment. You look at that from a global business environment. Resilience is no longer a luxury; it’s a necessity. We’ve got to earn it. We’ve got to do that. It’s about building agility to respond to change, being able to respond to shocks, have business continuity or organisational continuity plans in place, and still move forward with purpose.
Our ability to identify risks and then try and put in place mitigation and management plans is key. Some of that might involve you having a conversation about what we call risk appetite. You may well have a different view about risk appetite at certain points. You may be prepared to have a higher risk appetite at a particular point. From our perspective as a trust board, we’ve talked about risk appetite from the perception of patient quality and patient safety. Not unsurprisingly, our risk appetite for that is quite low. We wouldn’t want to compromise safety and quality. But then we’ve talked about from a financial perspective, even with the financial context we’ve changed, that we’ve probably got a high-risk appetite for that. It’s about your basic understanding of what it is.
We’ve got to be able to manage the risk, but we’ve got to challenge and lead that strategic response. I think this comes back to our ability to have that strategic foresight and trouble insight can help the organisation make itself more resilient, more able to adapt, more able to respond, and succeed in unpredictable conditions. Change is inevitable, it’s how we deal with and embrace that change.
My advice? I guess it’s be clear about where you are and where you want to go. Have that strong sense of purpose. And a strong understanding and a grasp of the data. And an understanding of what that data is telling you. Look at the run rates on things; what is that indicating? Bold risks can be taken when they align with the long-term value creation and are genuinely supported by robust scenario planning. Well, if this didn’t quite work out; what would that mean? Also, it’s not wrong on occasion to apply the brakes when you think potentially that risk could threaten core stability. Or maybe there’s a bit about deferring it and being conscious of what is the right time.
Again, I would say to colleagues, take advantage of the CIMA resources. We developed a number of toolkits to help members navigate this. We’ve got our Business Resilience Toolkit. If you’ve not used that, please do so. It’s designed specifically for finance professionals and business leaders. It looks at a range of tools, strategic frameworks, and thought-provoking prompts to help organisations do what I think is essential, i.e., scan your external environment with clarity. Think about what’s happening out there, then evaluate how any shift economically may impact on you and different parts of the business and also the sector you work on.
We’ve got to balance courage and risk-taking with a degree of caution, but that doesn’t mean also that we should not make any decisions. We can’t paralyse ourselves by being overcautious. We are in a particularly strong place to guide our organisations, not just by saying no to risk because that would be the wrong thing to do. I mean, you can manage risk and try and mitigate it by not doing anything. The reality is, if you stand still, you go backwards. But we can support organisations by being smarter and providing more resilient ways to say yes. But identify the challenges to that. Be clear about what those risks are. And be clear about the actions you’re taking to mitigate and manage it.
Brown: Young professionals, Gen Z in particular, are interested in purposeful career paths with opportunities to do meaningful work. What opportunities can a career in finance bring in respect to those values?
Graham: First and foremost, you will be a trusted business adviser. You will have respect. The modern finance professional, CGMA, is a business influencer. You’re providing foresight to business partners to aid corporate decision-making. You’ll work cross-functionally. You won’t just be working in a silo of an accounts team or a finance team behind a closed door. You will be guiding decision-making. We just talked about risks. You’ll be evaluating risks and identifying opportunities.
Fundamentally, you will do this in an ethical way. You will be making evidence-based, data-driven decisions. This role would allow them to influence outcomes that matter — matter to them, matter to their organisation, matter to the wider community. That can be whether it’s helping the organisation expand into new markets, making them more sustainable, or to navigate that economic uncertainty.
And on sustainability — beyond the regulatory compliance and short term gains — communicate those decisions to finance or nonfinance managers in a way that they understand it and they’re able to make the best informed decisions for their organisations. That’s probably one of the key things, I think for us as a CGMA, is you’re not just talking to finance professionals. Most of my conversations are out [of] the finance department. They are across disciplines or across professionals, and that’s both within and without organisations. You can make the organisation and support the organisation in becoming more sustainable by embedding those efforts into our day-to-day business models.
The last thing I would say is about change and innovation. Finance is no longer about just looking backwards: It’s about shaping the future. It’s about leading that digital transformation. It’s about adopting early emerging technologies like AI, blockchain. And actually have the imagination and be able to reimagine how value is measured and delivered. Not just for our shareholders and our stakeholders, but for everyone. There’s real opportunities to innovate, to be able to solve complex problems, to contribute to building a more agile and resilient organisation. I would say the satisfaction that you will get from doing that — the satisfaction you will get personally and organisationally — it’s massive.
You will make a difference. You will make a difference every single day.
Brown: One focus for your year as CIMA president and Association co-chair is working with Association CEO Mark Koziel and Association Chair Lexy Kessler on the 2040 project. What are the main goals of that project?
Graham: In some respects, it’s been good timing for me in terms of my present year working with Lexy as co-chair and Mark coming in as the new chief [executive], because members and member engagement is what we’re about. We are able to advocate and influence the finance and the accountancy profession because of the fact we are a global organisation, and because of the fact we’ve got so many members. Therefore, this ability to engage with our members on that Rise 2040 project is really exciting for me. This is about us saying we’re going to try and look forward over the next 15 years, we’re going to involve you, and we’re going to get your views. And more importantly, we’re going to listen to your views. It’s about trying to chart that forward path and say, “How do we get through this?”
This is the first real, truly profession-wide global visioning project. It reflects the scale of our global community and the speed the world is changing. We’ve already had two fantastic sessions at CIMA Council and at AICPA Council, and we were supported by Daniel Burrus, who’s a futurist and looks at trends and tries to identify the trends and say, “Do we respond to them?” But I think if we can then play back to our members: “This is what we’ve heard from you. We’ve listened to what you’ve said, we’ve engaged with you,” I mean, that will be absolutely brilliant. This is not a one-off exercise. We’re not just going to produce a nice, shiny document, put it on the shelf, and not look at it. We will constantly refresh it.
I believe this is going to prepare our profession for the future by trying to identify those trends, anticipating the skills. What knowledge do we need in the future? What roles do we need? The reality is we’ve got rapid technological change; AI, automation transforming how we do things. Rise 2040 is focused on building that digital competency, that digital fluency and strategic insight across the profession. We should be using these as tools, as a matter of course. We shouldn’t feel threatened by them. We should be using them to supplement the core skills we have.
As sustainability becomes more central to business decisions, I think this project will support the development of standardisation of sustainability reporting metrics across the global engagement.
I was really lucky after the [annual general meeting] to go to Canada and did a couple of member engagements there. I was talking to them about the 2040 project, and their excitement to get involved was brilliant. All over the world, we’re going to talk to people, gather insights to ensure that Rise 2040 reflects the diverse perspectives and needs of our professions worldwide.
It will reflect the diverse nature of us as a global community, skills development, and policy advocacy. We know this initiative will probably support the education reforms, particularly when we look at where the UK is going around the apprentice levy, and recognising accounting as one of those STEM subjects: science, technology, engineering, and mathematics — I think that will be crucial. If we can make more progress on unified global standards, that focus on harmonisation of accounting practice across borders to support consistency and comparability, that will be a great outcome.
I’m massively honored that I’ll have the opportunity to talk to members across the globe about this. We recognise it’s a bold vision, and one that sees finance professionals not just as technical experts, but as strategic leaders in a fast-evolving world. But that’s what we are. That’s where we need to place ourselves. That’s where we will add value to our organisations.
Rise 2040 is a real opportunity to do that. Lexy and I are as one on that, as with Mark. We’ve had conversations at the councils. We’ve had conversations at the board of directors for the Association. What has struck me is that universal support, that universal passion, that universal excitement for it. I think Lexy and I are really privileged. It’s a great opportunity. I just want people to take that opportunity and embrace it.
Brown: What are your goals for making a positive impact on the talent pipeline for finance?
Graham: We’ve got to excite young people about finance. We’ve got to excite people about CGMA. There are so many opportunities for them. Where you then go, in some respects, is up to you. There’s lots of doors that will open for them. From that perspective, it’s about showing the breadth of opportunities that our profession offers. It’s about promoting those different finance career pathways. It’s about speaking with schools, universities, and early professionals about that variety and diversity of career opportunities.
Starting that career will give you those opportunities. There’s also that ability to say: “I want to change; I want to adapt. I’ve done a couple of years doing whatever; I want to go do something else.” We can support that. We can promote it. CGMA has got that flexibility.
The CGMA professional qualification is absolutely fit for the future. I’ve referenced already the work we’ve done with the syllabus and the exams. We are constantly striving to make sure that is relevant. We’ve designed it to equip future finance professionals with the best technical expertise, critical thinking, strategic insight. This is all about the skills and the core competencies that you would need to thrive in that dynamic, fast-changing world.
We have changed our approach to learning and exams through our CGMA Finance Leadership Programme. There’s a fully digital pathway to completing the professional qualifications. The reality is we are all different people, learning different ways. We’ve got to welcome people into our profession, and we’ve got to make it as easy as possible from a learning point of view — not the standard of qualification or the exam — to give people as many options as possible to get to that position where they can qualify.
Too often, people think about accounting and finance as the number-crunching, as we said before, or a back-office function. That’s not what it’s about. That is so far from reality now it’s untrue. We are that dynamic, impactful profession, and we need more people to know that.
As CIMA president and Association co-chair, I will be trying to support these efforts on a day-to-day basis, but also with the engagements across the regions. Those engagements will be with members, employers, academics, regulators, students. We all have our part to play. We can all provide that perspective. We are very privileged to work and be in the best profession in the world. I think, as part of that, don’t be frightened, don’t be worried about saying so. We are in a great profession.
Brown: We’ve talked about traits such as critical thinking can help finance professionals bring value to organisations. For those who are developing those skills but still feel the changes in tech and business in general are moving too fast, what advice would you give?
Graham: It’s a great question and a great challenge because some of this is about how we as individuals adapt. One of the strengths for us as a community is that diversity. There’s an acceptance that we are in an era of constant disruption, constant change. I would say we have to respond to that. There is only one way, and that’s forward. We need to look forward and say, “How do I, how do we as an organisation, adapt to that change?”
I think one of the most important things for me in this is that mindset of continuous learning. Be curious. Ask questions. Challenge. Go and have a look at what we do and ask that question: “Why do we do that, and why are we doing it that way?” Look and see what others are doing. As a CGMA designation holder, this should be in our DNA. Observe, reflect, ask questions. That can be done through various themes and various ways, but it’s about having that passion inside you that says, “I want to be better at what I do, and I will be better.” That’s just about making sure that we’ve got the necessary skills and competencies. If things change because of technology or AI or whatever, we understand that and we adapt.
We will shape the future of finance from not merely being that steward of resources, but being that trusted strategic driver of business success. One who will embrace risk, will embrace opportunities, will embrace the challenges, and provide solutions to our organisations. It can be a challenge in terms of embracing this challenge or risk or, maybe being outpaced because a lot of stuff is going on. There’s no doubt the future is filled with both challenges and opportunities. But I believe it’s our capacity to adapt, be resilient — both as individuals and a profession — which will define us. It will make or break us. But I’m confident it will define us.
We are the future of finance, and CIMA takes you places.
CIMA and the Association are here to help us. They’re here to guide us. They’re here to support us. They’re here to help us grow. It’s also a fantastic community to be involved in. They will help us excel throughout our and your professional lives. There’s never been a better time to be a CGMA.
Brown: I think that’s a great note to end on. Thanks, John, and thank you for providing all those insights today.
Graham: My pleasure.
